Innovating Tree Management with John Snow’s Expertise

Episode Overview

Episode Topic

In this episode of Timber Talks, we delve into the dynamic world of arboriculture and forestry management. Hosted by Mindy, the show features a conversation with John Snow, a seasoned consulting master arborist and president-elect of the Florida Urban Forestry Council. Together, they explore the evolution of tree care practices, the role of technology in arboriculture, and the importance of sustainable forestry. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the latest trends and innovations in tree management, from the ground level up to the aerial perspectives provided by drones.

Lessons You’ll Learn

Listeners will gain valuable insights into the advancements in arboricultural techniques and technologies. John Snow shares his experiences with the transition from macro to micro injections for tree treatments, the utilization of drones for tree mapping and health assessments, and the integration of GPS technology for precise tree inventory management. Additionally, the episode highlights the importance of combining traditional arborist skills with modern tools to enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of tree care. By the end of the episode, you’ll have a deeper understanding of how technology is transforming the field and the practical applications of these innovations in everyday arboriculture.

About Our Guest

John Snow is a renowned consulting master arborist and the owner of Tree Checkup LLC, an arborist consulting firm based in Florida and the Southwest. With over 30 years of experience in the field, John is an ISA Board Certified Master Arborist and a respected member of the American Society of Consulting Arborists. He currently serves as the president-elect for the Florida Urban Forestry Council. John’s extensive background includes managing over 100,000 trees across various sectors, making him a leading authority on tree care and urban forestry. His expertise spans advanced diagnostic techniques, sustainable tree management practices, and leveraging technology for better tree health assessments.

Topics Covered

The episode covers a broad range of topics relevant to modern arboriculture. Mindy and John discuss the shift from outdated tree treatment methods to more refined approaches, such as microinjections for delivering insecticides and fertilizers. They explore the revolutionary impact of drones on tree care, allowing arborists to obtain aerial views and assess tree health without the need for climbing. The conversation also touches on the use of GPS technology for accurate tree mapping and inventory. John shares his insights on the future of arboriculture, including potential advancements in remote sensing, lidar, and the concept of a digital twin for urban forests. This episode provides a comprehensive overview of the technological innovations shaping the future of tree care.

Our Guest: John Snow – A Leading Expert in Tree Care Management.

Episode Transcript

Episode Transcript 

Introduction: Welcome to Timber Talks, the podcast where we interview experts in the forestry industry sharing trends, insights and best practices in the field. Be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a review.

Mindy : Hey John.

John: How are you today?

Mindy : How are you? Good.

John: Can you hear me? All right.

Mindy : I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yeah. Okay, I’m gonna wait a few minutes before we get started. So, do you have any questions for me?

John: Not really. I think you’re going to lead the show here.

Mindy : Yeah, well.

John: What we’re going to do.

Mindy : We’re going to do it together. How’s that?

John: That works for me. Do I need to pull up the outline..

Mindy : I’ve got the outline in front of me..

John: Look, all my other screens, I’m going to go get some water and back in four minutes, okay?

Mindy : All right. Hey, dad, I’m in the middle of a podcast, okay? by.

John: You might fall or explode. And the cat, you probably hear the cat.

Mindy : I haven’t heard the cat yet.

John: You want some attention?

Mindy : Well, just to give you a little tip, a little sidebar on my education. I have a degree in agriculture and a background in natural resources, and my master’s spent a lot of time in urban planning, so kind of all around the place, growing hair. So I am familiar with your topic. 

Mindy : All right. We’ll get started. Welcome to this episode of Timber Talks. The podcast that dives deep into the roots of forestry and arboriculture. I’m your host, Mindy, and today we’re joined by special guest John Snow, owner and consulting master arborist for Tree Checkup LLC, which is an arborist consulting firm in Florida and the southwest. He is also the president elect for the Florida Urban Forestry Council. John brings a wealth of knowledge and experience managing over 100,000 trees across various sectors. He is an ISA Board Certified Master Arborist and a respected member of the American Society of Consulting Arborist. Today, we’ll explore the intrinsic world of tree care, learn about the latest in Arboricultural technology, and gain practical insights into maintaining and preserving our green heritage. Welcome, John there’s been many changes in arboriculture. I’m of the age that I can remember doing some horrible things to trees, so what are some innovations in arboriculture that you have seen that have evolved in your career and how technology is playing a bigger role in arboriculture?

John: Absolutely. That’s such a great question, Mindy.there’s so many different directions that you can go with, that. I came up with it. I’ve been doing this for over 30 years now. I’ve seen a lot of different changes just simply from the way we treat trees. Some of the older techniques will be macro injections. Now we have microinjections. That’s literally like a needle going into a tree to provide insecticides or fertilizers. things have really gotten a lot more refined. I think the technology overall has improved. I grew up in the era where we didn’t have computers, and now that we have computers and we have AI now, we’re starting to see a lot of more radical changes in the industry as far as just leveraging technology. For example, one of the things that I started doing a while back was, a few years out, I became a drone pilot. I got my FAA license. And I actually utilize the drones to help map larger properties, evaluate trees, get that aerial view without necessarily having to climb the tree. But what we would have had to do 15, 20 years ago.

Mindy : I have. Three drones. I use my three drones in different aspects of some things that I do. So drones have really changed things up in many, in many cases as far as diagnostic and tree health assessment, what are some you mentioned about the micro versus the macro approach? What groundbreaking tools or methods does Tree Checkup LLC use? . I mean, when I said the horrible things we did, we would trim a tree and cover the wound with tar. And I know you don’t do that anymore.

John: That’s not a recommended practice anymore as far as a lot of the stuff, I try to keep things relatively simple in the practice. The reality of it is, not every tree needs, in depth, a heavy duty diagnostic process where you’re coming out with a tool like a tomograph or something that is almost taking  this x-ray of the tree.there’s times where that is needed. Also, some of the tools that I use are very simple. I use an air spade to do root collar excavations to identify problems in the root system. We use, like I said, the drone a lot to get that aerial imagery of the tree, get into nooks and crannies with you.

John: Tree, which requires a skill to get the thunderstorm here in the area. And my internet made me a little in and out, but like I was saying, we use drones.  Sometimes I use a resistor graph, do some drilling on the tree. but for the most part, it’s just pretty much every day evaluations not going super crazy unless it’s warranted.

Mindy : how has advancements touched on how technology has helped your consultations?  Can you think  of any, massive advancement that has helped you with your large scale projects? besides the internet? .

John:  As far as technology goes on that side we’ve invested in, a lot of GPS equipment where we can actually go out and, basically get the location of the tree at a submeter level.a lot of the properties that I’m working on are very large,  anywhere from ten to a couple hundred acres, maybe even 1600 acres at times. so having an accurate location of where these trees are is critical. And then being able to go in and precisely use software to inventory the trees, rate the condition of the trees, take notes, all of those kinds of things. 20 years ago we would have been doing basically on paper and pencil out in the field and then trying to bring it into the office and put it into a spreadsheet or something. And it may just sit on a shelf. a lot of the tools that I use really give me much more actionable recommendations. Like I indicated, maybe I like to try to keep things as simple as possible unless it’s warranted. So I  go through an iterative process where we inspect the tree and then make some determinations. If it requires that more advanced assessment, then we’ll go ahead and look at doing that.

Mindy : Are you using any form of remote sensing when you are involved in diagnosing the tree?

John: You know, I really am not, for most of the projects that I’m involved with, we don’t necessarily need remote sensing at this point. I’ve toyed around with the idea of using lidar and photogrammetry.I think there’s opportunities there. I just have not seen that the technology is quite there just yet, probably within maybe another five years, it’ll get down to a point where hopefully there’ll be a little bit more affordable and the software that goes with all of that will be a lot more refined. And that’s the biggest issue, I think, of the software development side of it. It’s not quite there yet

Mindy : All right. looking. Toward the future of tree care. There’s been a eureka moment that we have come to realize that the earth is changing and good, bad, ugly is going to cause some more problems to our outdoor environment. Do you have any suggestions on some emerging technologies that you are aware of or practices that you think are going to change the future of arboriculture in the next decade?

John:UK hit on it with the remote sensing and some of the lidar. I know that there’s several different programs out there now where they’re looking at this digital twin of the urban forest, which is a really cool concept. I think it’s just going to take some time, it requires so much bandwidth. It’s so much processing power. I think there’s that aspect of it along with the software. And once that  comes together, I think that’s going to be an absolute game changer for the industry. particularly from a municipal standpoint, but from a practical, everyday arborist, it still is really going to boil down to just getting out and touching the trees.

Mindy : Do you think robots will ever, I mean, we have robots that mow our grass now we have. Do you think robots will ever play a role in this field?

John: I could see in some applications, absolutely particularly in the utility sector. I think that could be very useful in the utility sector doing some of these large transmission line printing.

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Mindy : do you see,  due to the changes that we have going on now that’s essentially out of our control. Are you seeing more need for your services or do you,  does the demand seem to be pretty flat as, as far as the world changes?.

John:That’s a really great question. And I think that as an industry our work cultures are growing with a lot of the development that’s going on, many of the urban, many of the forested areas that we were accustomed to having, are now becoming deforested, urban developments are coming in. So you have this transition between the forest and the urban forest, and that brings a pretty unique challenge into the whole factor of how you’re going to manage individual trees or groups of trees within community developments, municipalities and such terms.

Mindy :For someone who is inspiring to enter this field, what  skills or knowledge areas do you see the most crucial in the coming years?

John: Great question. there’s so many different areas. And I think one thing that listeners really need to take away from this is that our culture is a very generalized industry. There’s different sectors like the municipal sector, the utility sector, and the commercial sector. But the reality of it is we’re actually collaborating with so many other different disciplines: landscape architects, planners, developers,  even bankers in some cases that may be financing projects. And I think some of the key skill sets are being able to communicate well, having a good understanding of tree biology, tree identification, soil science, and water management. Those are the four key areas as well as tree physiology. Just understanding how trees work is, is really critical to the whole process. And then being able to communicate that with the stakeholders.

Mindy : Do you ever see, I talked to another person who felt that arboriculture was going swinging into more of  a location where vocation, like being an electrician, where possibly, there might be a journeyman type of program to encourage. More people enter that field and help educate the future generations in a safe way. Do you see that as a possibility, or do you see just the path continuing the way it has been?

John: That’s really deep and pretty insightful because I think there’s two real versions of our culture and crime. One is that trade aspect of it, of the guy that’s out there pruning trees, fertilizing trees, treating insects, diseases. there is definitely a vocational component or trade component of that. And I think that’s very relevant and very important. When you get to a certain point in things, it  shifts from being a vocation to more of a professional sort of level. What I deal with as a consulting arborist is very different. I don’t consider myself a tradesperson. I used to do that. I used to climb trees. Might not look like it now, but I used to climb and prune trees and do treatments, But at this point, my career as a consulting arborist, my focus is looking at the bigger picture, doing diagnostic work, doing tree risk assessments.that’s not a vocation. That’s a little deeper, right? You have a professional aspect to things and then you have that vocational because I view vocational tradesmen as the person who’s actually doing the work. And then you have people that may be supervising, directing, managing the work, and beyond.

Mindy : What are some, if no one. Well, if someone was thinking about doing this, what would be some practical advice you would have for an arborist when it comes to dealing with common issues that you encounter in tree management, and what are the standard practices when it comes to addressing them? Do you address issues different from if you’re in an urban environment or you’re dealing with a forest? Do you deal with issues or are there issues that come up that you have to deal with separately because of the two different environments?

John: I think arborists need to educate themselves on the problems that are inherent in their region. Even though trees grow worldwide, they have specific regional issues that vary and the treatments are going to vary as well. Generally speaking, much of the stuff can be applied kind of across the board. When I got started, I got started in Illinois. Now I’m down in Florida. Well, fact is, trees that grow in Illinois are very different from the trees in Florida, but the principles remain the same. So again, it goes back to understanding the basics of tree biology, tree physiology, things like that. I think some of the things that people could really look towards doing is becoming a certified arborist that demonstrates that basic level of understanding about the industry. The practices and such are worsening to familiarize themselves with the Ansi standards, the American national standards out there. Uh, you have the tree pruning standard. You have the lightning protection standard, the cabling and bracing standards. So there are standards and guidelines out there, for the industry. And, people need to understand that and adopt those in their practices anytime already.

Mindy : So, can you give us an example of a complex tree risk assessment and how you approach it? . and I think maybe explaining what a tree risk assessment is, because some people may not know what that actually is. Sure.

John: Uh, yeah. A tree risk assessment can be pretty complex at times, for sure. . you know, what we are looking for in tree risk assessment is conditions that present themselves, that are a concern that, you know, through training and experience and examining the tree, you determine. The level of risk of a tree part or the whole tree failing. That requires a lot of training, a lot of experience, observation and understanding how trees grow and how trees fail. And so that’s really what that’s kind of a very general broad view of tree risk assessment. . there is an actual qualification program that arborists should go through. . and it also involves communicating with the stakeholders, whether it be a homeowner or municipal government and stuff like that. . because they’re going to oftentimes require a report and also permitting processes and things like that, demonstrating. Well, the tree actually does present risk. And so one of the tools that I use a lot for that is, you know, just a simple good camera phone and our phone, you know, with a great camera. It’s what I’d say I’d try to say there, you know, I don’t use the 35 millimeter cameras like we used to, but, you know, the camera on my iPhone does a fabulous job, you know, documenting things. And, you know, you can go in and edit the photos and point out, hey, here’s a pocket of decay in this limb. This presents a, you know, potential risk. And maybe that needs to be pruned. Tree risk assessment is not about removing trees. It’s actually about trying to preserve trees by mitigating these problems through good pruning practices. . You know, removal is really the last resort.

Mindy : Okay. . for our listeners who are part of Community Associates nations or manage large properties, what are your top tips for effective tree planning and preservation? Wow.

John: That’s great. You know, there are so many different ways, Mindy, that you could skin that cat. You know, I think the first and most important thing for community associations or larger populations of trees, maybe it’s a campus. I deal with a lot of community associations. . You may like a business park as another good example. You really need to understand the trees that you have there. You need to win the assessment independently. And, you know, they’re just making some general recommendations, whereas, you know, you need to treat trees on an individual basis. Not every tree needs to be trimmed at 30ft, for example. And so just simply by going in and identifying the trees that you have and identifying the needs and then developing these actionable recommendations, it’s going to save community associations a lot of money, and it’s going to extend the lives of the trees, because at the end of the day, once you prune that limb, you can’t put it back.

Mindy : It’s very true. Very true. . so, . I just have had this kind of burning question, are you seeing problems with invasive species? Because I know as far as landscaping goes, that can be an issue. So are you seeing more problems with this or not really a change as far as invasive species in the properties that you consult on?

John: I see a fair amount of invasive species. A lot of the properties that I deal with here in Florida in particular, you know, we have, uh, Brazilian pepper just about everywhere, uh, which is very invasive. I mean, it’s amazing. You go into some of these places and it’s like, wow, I just, you know, and the strange part about it is people don’t even recognize it. It’s actually an invasive species. And then, you know, you have tallow trees. Camphor trees can be invasive. I see a fair amount of invasiveness. I don’t think that that’s necessarily changed over the years, per se.

Mindy : Well, I know where we have a big issue with Bradford Pear. And so, you know, . I’ve.

John: Seen that too.

Mindy : Yes. I, you know, the situations I kind of get any better. So, you know, I mean, our highways are landscaped and they just, they take over the Bradford pears do. So it’s.

John: Crazy. I was out on a date. Opry about two months ago as a wooded property, undeveloped and literally. I’m walking through these woods and in the middle of the woods, I look up, I’m like, that’s a Bradford pear. Yeah. Where did this come from?

Mindy : Yes, yes. And that is, yeah. Bradford pear and honeysuckle. That’s a big issue. And a burning bush that’s in my area. That’s, that’s the, the big issue. So I was just curious if you were seeing the global change that we’re having, if you were seeing more problems with invasive species.

John: I wouldn’t see I wouldn’t I wouldn’t necessarily say that. I think as time goes on, we may see that, but again, it’s so incremental. It’s very difficult to kind of mentally track that.

Mindy : Right. . So thank you so much, John, for sharing your invaluable insights and experience with us today. It’s clear that your passion and dedication to arboriculture are making a significant impact, especially those who still use tar in their trees. . So listeners, if you’re interested in learning more about tree care or need expert advice, be sure to visit Tree Checkup LLC website. Don’t forget to subscribe to Timber Talks for more conversations like this. We have new episodes every week exploring the many facets of forestry and conservation. I’m Mindy. Keep growing your knowledge and take care of the trees. They do take care of us. So do you have any questions for me, John?

John: No, I think we’re in good shape there. Hopefully my internet has held up enough.

Mindy : It’s been a challenge today. I’ve got storms in my area. So, you know, my fingers crossed that everything works out, so, but, but very interesting. Like I said, I’ve seen my fair share of trees with. And I have to remind my dad all the time, we don’t put tar anymore. Just don’t do it. So, um. Well, thank you so much for your time.

John: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Mindy : All right. Talk to you later. Bye.