Climbing High with Arborist Jeff Inman of True Timber

Episode Overview

Episode Topic

In this episode of Timber Talk, we dig into the world of arboriculture with Jeff Inman, exploring his passion for trees and his journey in the forestry field. Jeff shares his story of how a childhood fascination with wood and nature, inspired by his grandfather, evolved into a fulfilling career. This episode aims to shed light on the importance of forestry and arboriculture, emphasizing the diverse opportunities and profound connections one can develop with nature through this field. Mindy, with her background in agriculture and forestry, guides the conversation to highlight the significance of modern-day job shadowing and its role in attracting new talent to forestry programs.

Lessons You’ll Learn

Listeners will learn about the intricacies of arboriculture, from the scientific understanding of trees to the hands-on skills required for tree climbing and maintenance. Jeff discusses the importance of education in biology and earth sciences and the value of practical on-the-job training. He also emphasizes the need for business knowledge for those aspiring to start their own arborist businesses. This episode provides insights into the day-to-day challenges and rewards of working as an arborist, offering valuable advice for those considering a career in this field, including the importance of safety and continuous learning.

About Our Guest

Jeff Inman is an experienced arborist and risk manager at True Timber Arborists in Richmond, Virginia. His journey into the forestry field began with a childhood love for trees and woodworking, inspired by his grandfather. After pursuing a degree in natural resources conservation and a minor in forestry at Virginia Tech, Jeff discovered his passion for arboriculture. Over the years, he has combined his love for climbing and trees into a rewarding career. Jeff is also a writer, contributing to industry magazines and sharing his knowledge and experiences with the broader arboriculture community.

Topics Covered

The episode covers a wide range of topics related to arboriculture and the forestry field. Jeff discusses his early influences and how they shaped his career path. He explains the educational background necessary for becoming an arborist, highlighting the importance of courses in biology and earth sciences. The conversation also touches on the practical aspects of tree work, including the use of safety equipment and the significance of on-the-job training. Additionally, Jeff shares his perspective on the evolving industry trends, the role of certifications, and the importance of business knowledge for aspiring arborists. The episode provides a comprehensive overview of the skills, challenges, and rewards associated with a career in arboriculture.

Our Guest: Jeff Inman – Passionate Arborist and Nature Enthusiast.

Episode Transcript

Episode Transcript 

Introduction : Welcome to Timber Talk, the podcast where we interview experts in the forestry industry sharing trends, insights and best practices in the field. Be sure to subscribe to the show and leave us a review.

Mindy : Hi.

Jeff Inman :  How’s your day?

Mindy : It’s been hectic. I had two, I thought I got the last bird out of my house, but I heard him in the kitchen flying around. I got two starlings in my house. I’ve been Oh, wow. Trying to get them out. So, I figured out how they got in, I’m going to take care of it as soon as everyone’s gone out of the nest,

Jeff Inman: Gotcha.

Mindy : just to kind of lay some groundwork. My name is Mindy, and I have a degree in AG,  And some minors, one’s natural resources and a master’s I do have a background in, in forestry, and some people I’ve interviewed didn’t really understand the purpose of this. The purpose is to, I call it kind of modern day job shadowing. It’s to get people interested in the forestry field and possibly enroll into some forestry programs. So that’s the purpose of these video interviews.

Jeff Inman : Okay. That’s great.

Mindy : Let’s see here. Tell me about yourself Jeff.  Why did you start your career with timber instead of something else?

Jeff Inman : That’s great and a big question.  My love for trees started as a little boy. My grandfather on my mom’s side, was a big wood turner and woodworker.  growing up, we learned about trees honestly from the inside out. like what? You know, what different wood looks like, the different things that you can make from, you know, what other people would either just kind of leave as waste and let it turn back into soil or cut up for firewood. My grandfather could see beautiful things inside of it.That was just kind of like how we, my brothers and I grew up in a lot of ways like that inspiration from the outdoor world and specifically wood came from from them and  they lived in West Virginia.Then we got to play around in the mountains of West Virginia and  develop that passion for being outside was really born, you know, all those years ago. then in school when I was in high school I really loved turning wrenches and I was pursuing being a mechanic went through the mechanic school and everything after high school in, my early college, and then just realized it wasn’t, like, as much as I loved tinkering with stuff, it wasn’t really, like, my heart wasn’t in it. I knew that I wanted to be outside. Not just adjacent to outside. I was also working for the Boy Scouts, during summer camps and stuff in the mountains of Virginia and knew that Virginia Tech and Radford University both had, like, recreation based, kind of outdoor recreation based degrees.

Jeff Inman : I wound up applying to Virginia Tech to pursue natural resources conservation, which had originally I thought maybe I wanted to go and like, do the National park route, being a rock climber and stuff like wanting to marry those two worlds of like. Working for a national park, but then also having the ability to go in and rock climb when, , kind of whenever I wanted and just these beautiful national parks. What I learned, though, is that, because I have a minor in forestry, I learned while in school that this whole thing called arboriculture existed, where I could take this passion I have for climbing and then marry it to this passion I have for trees and being outside. I discovered that in my last semester in university, which is still hilarious to me, that it took all that time to land last semester right before I graduate to discover this thing. And it was kind of like love at first sight in a lot of ways . I know this is what I want to do now. After graduating, I met my wife and we tried to be rock climbing bums for a little while, and then student loans started to kick in. We were like okay well, we need to get jobs and start paying for debt and all this stuff, like being adults. So I jumped into doing tree work. Really? Not soon after getting out of university, but, it was  really  just that connection to the living organism of  interacting and working with trees and everything that comes with that feeling. It’s wildly poetic in a lot of ways. I do a fair amount of writing about this now and contributing to different industry magazines and  just how connected we are as arborists with the natural world through just the course of our day to day work.

Jeff Inman : Maybe we don’t always fully appreciate that or recognize it. But, when the wind blows and we’re at the top of a tree. We have the opportunity and the ability to feel what another organism is like. Living, breathing organism feels at that moment. We learn how these trees grow, and how they develop strength and why they, as well as, form weaknesses and then it. Why failures happen, and then we have to go and address that, whether it’s, falling on property or, we just have to go clean up broken trees. But we’re constantly in this, this state of ever learning, ever growing. And every day is different, that’s the other thing of most; three people that I interact with have some level of attention deficit. So the constant change, how every day is a little bit different, is wonderful. And, trees specifically just offer that in a very unique way. Like, you could have two trees growing side by side, the same exact species have been exposed to the same exact soil and nutrients and all that stuff. And they have two completely different forms: growth habits, defects, strengths, all that stuff. It’s essentially you know, first ascents in a lot of ways, looking at it from a climbing perspective.

Mindy : Was it a combination of going to college and on the job training, that you were able to develop your skills as an arborist, or did you have to get a particular license to be able to do that?

Jeff Inman : I learned a lot about it. trees while in university. like learning about trees, biology, physiology Why certain species look certain ways. And how that practically plays out in arboriculture if a tree grows or looks a certain way that gives you an indication as  maybe strengths or weaknesses or what we call failure profiles for these different species.  Having that kind of background knowledge before getting into the industry was wildly important in my opinion, but then in terms of the skills portion, it’s great to know what you’re like, theoretically, book knowledge. Way to work with trees, know what they’re going to do. But in terms of actually conducting it, on the job training is how, for the most part, the entire industry operates. There are a few certifications here in the States that you can go in and get such as a tree climber, certification is a certified arborist or the two kinds of predominant certifications. But they don’t necessarily give you access to go and do tree work like in the States. You don’t need any type of certificates and verify any type of training before you actually go and start doing tree work. Different parts of the world do require that. But here in the States, that’s not it.

Mindy : Okay, so what if somebody had an interest in this? What would be some at the high school level that you would suggest classes? and what would be some other types of training that you would suggest somebody who has this interest that they may not think about, like taking some classes and business as an example to be an arborist. Do you have any suggestions?

Jeff Inman: first thing, when people are just kind of curious as to what it is that, we as arborists do in terms especially from the climbing side we have these things called climbing championships that are regional, each region has their own championship, once a year, so for people to be on the lookout for that, and there you get a display of w what kind of act of tree climbing looks like. It’s simulated and it’s a big game. It’s a fun sport and I love it dearly. I’ve been doing it for over a decade now and have no intention of stopping. It’s super fun, it’s a great way to see what, professional arborists’ look like and how they carry themselves with wearing helmets and safety glasses and using ropes and our harnesses in terms of pursuing, education, it’s like anything kind of forestry related or science related is going to give you some sort of base knowledge in terms of arboriculture. It seems like there’s a starting to be a bit of a rise in terms of, this specific study in, in different universities. I know the university I attended, Virginia Tech.

Jeff Inman: As, at least a concentration, I believe, inside of urban forestry. Now, the urban forestry degree allows you to pursue arboriculture. It’s not a full blown major yet, I don’t believe, but there’s more emphasis being placed on arboriculture because societally we’re recognizing that trades as a whole are, have been underutilized and, not really looked at with the same attention that we should like, there are all these things that need to happen, be made, or somebody, if a storm comes through and a tree falls in a house, somebody has to know how to go take a tree off a house. It’s a very practical thing.  Especially for folks looking for sustainable job security. It’s one of the cool things that we noticed during the pandemic and what made us as arborist, classified as essential is that very thing of when a storm comes or if there’s hazardous trees or parts of trees that are in the community, we are the specialized group that knows how to go and, do that but the company I work for, true timber arborist, based out of Richmond, Virginia, we have an entire, training academy that is devoted to teaching people the, art and science of caring for trees.

Jeff Inman : How to not only learn about these trees, but also how to conduct the work in a safe manner. But really from a school side of things, the best thing I could suggest to somebody who’s interested is pursue, you know, biology, earth sciences, , stuff like that to learn more about trees. And if you have interest, in wanting to be an entrepreneur and a business owner, then absolutely take some classes in business, because I’m sorry, most tree climber, most arborists, get into this line of work because they love the trees and they love the act of caring for trees and then wind up with their own business or something. And then they’re like, oh, I wish I’d have taken business classes, because now I’m having to learn all this stuff. The hard way Right, if it’s an aspiration of someone who has that entrepreneurial spirit, I tend to always encourage like, yes, you can. I mean, you can do things like double major, pursue this thing that you’re super interested in and have a passion for. But also it’d be good to at least maybe get a minor too. To take some business courses to learn a bit more about that.

Mindy : Right. Perfect day. What is the best part of your job? Is it being outside? Being with the trees? . Okay. What is the. I think I know the answer to this. What is the worst part of your job? Everybody has the worst.

Jeff Inman : I’m going to start with the worst. I’m going to say the worst part of my job are the days when I’m not able to be outside and in the trees. My role at True Timber is, I’m out, risk manager and academy director. So I’m the one that is responsible for overseeing our entire training program, monitoring compliance, taking, and our 35 field employees making sure they have access to the training resources they need, but then also going and working with them. My worst days are honestly the days I have to be behind my computer just because of the necessity of my work, usually I try to keep it all on Mondays, that way I just knock it out in one day and don’t have to think about it again the rest of the week.

Mindy : Yeah.

Jeff Inman : It’s the spreadsheets. It’s the compliance piece. It’s trying to come up with new programs. I really love writing. That’s why I tend to do it on that day as well.That gives me a bit of a boost on what I would call my worst days. My best days are like today where it’s a beautiful day outside and I get to just go run around in trees, just a few hours ago, I was about 90ft up in a big willow oak in the middle of downtown Richmond, and got to take in the beautiful view of, , of our city. But then also see the cool river that runs right through and then have a complex  tree to try to figure out how to move around in and have to set up ropes and pulleys to control how I bring this debris down into a very small space. That is why. Again.  Arboriculture. And specifically the climbing portion of it, requires so much of your physical body, but also, your mental side, it just fully engages you, in a great way. Anytime I’m in that world, when my feet are off the ground, it’s a great day. Doesn’t really matter what I’m doing if my feet are off the ground, it’s my favorite day.

Mindy: have you seen some drastic changes in the industry from when you started to now?

Jeff Inman : I started in the industry in 2011. so this will be my 13th year in arboriculture. I was fortunate to start with a great company that placed a lot of emphasis on safe work practices and training. What’s been neat to see, though, is like, that was a little bit more unique than, is now quite a bit more commonplace in terms of prioritizing the use of personal protective equipment, um, following best management practices in terms of, what we’re doing with trees, how to and really just training as a whole for, individuals so they know what they’re doing, how to protect themselves, how to protect the people around them, and then also how to actually conduct the work in a way that  it should be done. I watch it every year with the differences like the Expos we have that are big like training opportunities and times when the entire industry gets together. Where the numbers just keep growing. There are more and more people that show up. and it’s really neat to watch, like brand new people coming into the industry have this passion for wanting to learn and push themselves, I think it also. Motivated folks who have been in this industry for a really long time who are kind of, , they know what they know, and it’s great.

Jeff Inman: This burst of desire and passion for wanting to know more seems to have not only inspired the people coming in, but inspired the people who’ve been around for a while, because we’re constantly learning stuff about trees, even sometimes the Latin names of trees, can change because somebody decides they want to change that.  or a group of people. Do we learn more about different types of fungi that attack the trees that we have to climb and care for, and it changes the structural integrity of. these trees, so having to know those hazards as well, learning new techniques.  and it’s funny, I talk about it as well as like, I remember telling my geometry teacher in ninth grade that I’ll never, ever use geometry. Ever. Why do I need to know geometry? Why do I need to know shapes? And now, every single day. I said the same thing about physics in high school. Why do I need to know this? And every single day that I’m on a work site. I’m using geometry. I’m using physics,  thinking about applying these things that exist in, in different places that really haven’t been talked about a whole lot inside our industry, especially in the last, you know, five, ten years that that conversation has, has really, really blossomed.

Mindy : So are you seeing, um, because I’m a minority in AG, as you can tell. Um, but are you seeing women coming into this field, or is it still just men that you’re seeing at these conferences and training and stuff?

Jeff Inman : No, I mean it’s still largely male in terms of the makeup of the industry but there are far more female arborists in the industry now than there were when I started. We have a few at the company I work for. you know they’re special events that are held like, right now. There’s the women’s tree climbing workshop that’s happening down in North Carolina, put on by my good friends Barry and Melissa Levangie. And so stuff like that has created a space. For other women too, to show up to, to just talk about stuff and, and have that space to where they can, you know, just talk about what it’s like to be a woman in an industry that’s largely male dominated. so, yeah, I mean, there’s been way more . It’s great, I love it. Yeah. I’d love to see more women join the industry. I personally, like, just learn so much, you know, just a different perspective. But also, like, as a male, like our, our gender tends to try to, like, brute force our way through everything and not be overly cerebral, where as the, you know, especially from a climbing person. Not especially, but definitely like it’s most profound. I feel like in terms of our day to day work, we see this play out where the women I work with think about stuff a little bit differently, and they move through the tree a little bit differently. And it’s equally inspiring to me. And it’s changed the way that I even go about my work of thinking about how to be more fluid and like, try to be graceful through a tree instead of like a wrecking ball, like running around through the tree. So.

Mindy : Right.

Mindy : So if somebody was, um, you know, we still have this big debate about going to college or going into the trades. Um, so would you recommend it from, you know, a person in high school who is kind of, you know I don’t necessarily want to go to college or can’t afford to go to college, but I also want to choose something that I can make a living wage would you recommend somebody at least exploring being an arborist as as a way of supporting themselves?

Jeff Inman : Absolutely I like trade. Trades in general I mean that’s again like what we’re seeing societally is people are having. And it’s great. I love that people are having this conversation more. It’s one that, , you know, I would love to have maybe considered more when I was in high school it was just like even, you know, you know, for me, like, it was it was like you go to high school, then you go to college, and then you get a job and and all that stuff. , now it’s really cool to see that that conversation is, is molding a bit. , so I’m a huge proponent of like, if you think that you want to be an arborist, then try it because it’s like, I, I very much believe this is this is a calling because it takes a unique person to be able to do the type of work that we do as arborists it’s dirty, it’s hard. You’re, you know, in the summer, you’re sweating profusely, profusely. In the wintertime, you’re really cold. Like, we’re just outside. We’re, you know, depending on what part of the world you’re in, you might be in smaller trees, you might be in bigger trees. But regardless, you’re living a life off the ground, , or setting people up to go and do work up off the ground.

Jeff Inman : We cut with chainsaws. We’re tied in with soft ropes. , we’re like, we call them tree kisses in our household. Like talking with my kids, like, all the little cuts and scrapes I get from just being in it. So it takes a very unique person to want to do this day in and day out. And if you feel like you have that draw, that desire, there’s a good chance that you’re nutty like me and want to be a part of this industry and if not, then that’s okay too. Like, there’s so many other different things that are available and the thing about college is like, it’s always there, like I’m 37. I could go back, like, if I never went to college, I could go to college right now. like, the online is more available than ever. I started out going to a community college, which is how I try to talk to young people of like, you don’t have to go straight to a four year university and accrue all that debt, especially because your first couple years are largely like.

Jeff Inman : You know, the same stuff that you would go through in community college. So at the very least. You could do some classes in community college to start getting credits in something that seems like it might be interesting, and then work part time, or work out some sort of arrangement to get with a local tree company and see if they’re into it because. What? Like tree companies are always looking for good people. Like it’s just we we always need people, , because again, it takes a unique person to do this. It takes an even more unique person to stick around for a long time to continue to do it. So if you feel the calling towards it. Pursue it. And if you find out, like, hey, this isn’t for me, then go try something else. Go, go. You know, pursue, pursue college and see, see what you learn. But you will forever be changed by doing this. Work like that has been very, very much a common theme with everyone I’ve worked with over the last 13 years that has tried it and then gotten out of like, oh yeah, I remember, I remember tree work.

Mindy : So have you seen the demand increase since you started? The environment is changing. Have you seen, you know, like a higher demand or has there always been this high demand for arborists?

Mindy : , I.

Jeff Inman : Think it’s pretty universal. I mean, it depends on, like, I’ve, I’ve done tree work, and, , I’m based in Richmond now, but I’ve done tree work in a lot of different places, like over, like across the majority of the US I’ve, you know, so it also kind of it depends on like right now, , what, not just right now, but for the last, you know, five, ten years, we’ve had the emerald ash borer that’s been attacking ash trees, so as that pest has moved its way across the country, it’s created a level of demand in those parts of the country. That eventually all the ash trees or the majority of the ash trees go away, so the demand lessens. so you’ll have these spikes of, you know, Dutch elm disease is another great example of, , of that oak wilt. , you know, different parts of the country are more susceptible to oak wilt. so we’re regionally where you have some of these issues, you might have more kind of like quote unquote, steady income because you have these trees that have these issues other than the fact that, like. If not managed properly, or if, say, something like the emerald ash borer is just kind of like you can’t contain it. Eventually that resource is going to be completely or mostly removed.

Jeff Inman : So that is kind of your major income flow as a business kind of drastically lessens. But there are still trees that need to be worked on. You’ll just have like if you were to look at your books as a business, you’ll have this massive spike for a few years and be like, oh, well, that’s because we had this pest going on. But your baseline is pretty much always going to be kind of the same. Trees will. So long as trees and people are interacting with one another. There will always be a necessity for arborists. like right now I’m looking at the wind blowing hard in my yard. , and all the trees around it are either being strengthened by the wind or they’re being weakened by the wind you know, it’s that’s just kind of it. If there are trees and there are houses, eventually, you know, there will be a storm that puts trees on houses. And at the very least, we have to be the ones that go get them out. But there’s also the routine pruning and removal practices. Wouldn’t necessarily say I’ve seen a demand for it increase, but I don’t think I’ve really seen it decrease. It’s pretty much just a flat line of like it just has to be done.

Mindy : Okay. So part of your job, do you? I noticed you had a risk assessment as part of your job where you do plant diagnosis like plant disease for, like homeowners or is it just strictly cutting trees?

Jeff Inman : So what I specialize in is climbing and cutting trees. But as, you know, we have people at our, our company who are what we call tree care advisors or our sales staff who go out and interact with our clients and make recommendations not only for the the cutting and and removing and pruning of trees, but also from like pathogen like diagnosis, like looking at a tree and like, hey, there’s something weird growing on my tree. , or, you know, my tree looks to be dying, or there’s this weird insect that’s crawling on it. So from the plant health care side of things, that’s a pretty big part of the industry. And for businesses that utilize plant health care operations, it’s a great revenue stream as well because it’s that is. It’s a great part of the business because it doesn’t require as much as many people to do the work. It also doesn’t require quite as much in terms of material and logistics and stuff. But yeah, it’s going out and trying to help a client, like figure out what’s wrong with their particular tree. If it’s a pest that’s attacking it, trying to identify that pest, and then choose a choose maybe a chemical or some sort of remediation to address that same thing if it’s a fungal infection or, , you know, maybe there’s something going on in the soil, in which case we’ll pull out this big air compressor and, you know, expose the roots and see what we can find and maybe do some remediation in the soil. So it’s not just the climbing and cutting, like as an arborist, there’s a lot of different avenues you can get in. , I have friends that only do consulting where all and as an arborist, they just go out. Look at different trees on people’s properties. Give recommendations. Try to be almost like the middle person. To set them up with a reputable tree company to come and do the work. And it’s, you know, there’s that avenue as well.

Mindy : Okay. All right, one more question. I’ll let you go, so I know a lot of, , trades have a journeyman type of program. Arborists do not. Correct.

Jeff Inman :that’s not necessarily true.

Mindy : Okay.

Mindy : Yeah.

Jeff Inman : So it’s just not, there aren’t many of them. So our company has the only certified journey worker program in the state of Virginia. So our, our tree, our true timber academy, has, two different, apprenticeships like our journey worker programs that are employees, can be enrolled in. And there are a few other kinds scattered throughout the States. But for the most part there aren’t the same type of journey worker programs that exist in like, , like the utility, , like like the,  electrical or electricians, plumbers, folks that actually work on the power lines, carpenters, all that stuff. So it’s a relatively new thing. It’s also kind of a. It took an incredible amount of work to get us to that point and add anything new. It’s going to require that that level of work. But that’s why we don’t see many. Many  journey worker programs for arborists, but also the trade itself of , of an arborist is not as historically recognized in the same way as like an electrician or a plumber or a carpenter or any of that stuff. So we’re kind of like on a. , we’re gaining progress in terms of, like, not really legitimizing the industry because it’s already legitimate, but adding more kind of structure around it to have it be looked at a little bit differently than it has been societally.

Mindy : Okay. Do you have any questions for me?

Jeff Inman: Oh.

Jeff Inman : Um, no, I mean, we’re the, , so the the purpose of, of, of these podcasts is just trying to get more information about just different aspects of the industry. Right? So where, where are some places that I guess you’re kind of maybe targeting this, this talk, like what’s your kind of audience?

Mindy : Well, I was hired by the company to do this. I kind of call this a modern day, like a not a mentorship job shadowing. When I was in school, we called it job shadowing type of thing, but a more modern day. And the goal is to encourage more people to go into the forestry field, whether they go, you know, to college or, you know, they go in a trade that has to do with forestry. That is the goal of this project. So I’ve been talking about how the internet gremlins have been terrible. But,  so I’ve been talking to, , several people about their role in the forestry umbrella., forestry to me is like agriculture. There’s a bunch of stuff underneath that umbrella. And, , some people make the connection and some people don’t make the connection that it has to do with forestry. So that’s the goal of this project.

Mindy : So.

Jeff Inman: Nice.

Mindy : And I think it’s it’s, It’s a very valuable project, especially with kids, so many people living in the city and not knowing what the possibilities are. I used to be a school teacher, so I know what schools are. Promote. And, that’s not for everyone. It is for some people, but it’s not for everyone. But, if a person has an interest in a trade, that’s a nice paying job, regardless of what it is. Really. And I wrote the standards for Iowa State who wanted to bring their carpentry program back. And, so when the kid, the student would enter their junior year, when they graduated their senior year, they would be making 75% of what a journeyman would be making. And they just have one more year. And that’s a pretty good salary for, you know, an 18 year old. So. Oh yeah., and no, no college debt or anything. So I think this program’s a really good program to introduce people to some different possibilities out there. So. So that’s the, the I can’t I don’t have the website or anything to tell you where the is going to be posted, but it’s just, you know, like I said, I just compare it to, modern day, job shadowing so people can just kind of get a little taste of it and, and think about it and decide if they want to try it or, or not.

Mindy : So but I wasn’t in that I, I wanted to be a vet so you know, went to the vet school thing that didn’t work. What did work partially, but I came to the reason I asked about females, I came when I was in high school, I, I went to my counselor and said, I want to take ag. And she said, no, Mandy, you can’t. And I was like, why can’t I? And women, you know, girls take home ec boys take shop and egg and all that. So the next year I asked the same question, got the same answer my senior year. Well, my junior year, when I was planning, my counselor said, all right, Mindy, you can be an ag, I. And I still couldn’t figure out for the life, I mean, why I couldn’t be in it. It didn’t make any sense to me. So, I really like to see women, you know, rock that glass ceiling and go into stuff that they have a lot of passion, passion for, and I, I used to do curriculum for, a program called Train the Trainer. And I was always so happy to see female electricians in the class because, yeah,I was like, oh, you know, you’re making the road easier for the next female that wants to explore that. So,

Jeff Inman: Yeah.

Mindy : But, but.

Jeff Inman: Yeah, it. I love that. Good.

Mindy : Sounds like you’ve had a very interesting journey to find what you’re really passionate about.

Jeff Inman : Yeah. It’s been a blessing and it’s been fun.

Mindy : Yeah. Yeah. That’s what makes the journey right.

Mindy : Exactly, exactly.

Mindy : So, well

Jeff Inman: Yeah.

Jeff Inman : I’m quite, quite excited that our, our kids, , will have, , yeah. Just have a different experience and, , opportunity, um, and then especially like our, our daughter in that, that same way of like, that. Yeah. Because of, like, if she is nutty like her dad and wants to, to be in the trees, there’s been at least, you know, the last 20 years of people trying to break that glass ceiling. So it’s it’s really just not a thing. It’s it’s like. Yep. Yeah. I just want to climb trees and it’s like, sweet, let’s go climb trees.

Mindy : Well, my journey hasn’t been the easiest, but. Yeah., you know, I. I don’t regret going into egg, I. I don’t teach in the classroom anymore., but I guess such a big, you know, there’s so much stuff underneath the egg. And every morning I get up, I’m just so excited about what new thing I’m going to learn. Or, I’ve been really interested in the communication of tree roots and, and, , just how they defend. I mean, I knew how they defended themselves, but this whole network of communication and sending energy, you know, to a tree that’s being attacked, trying to save it or the communication is saying, you know, he’s too far gone. You know, we’re just going to have to let him do that type of thing. And then,, I used to run a community garden and the, you know, , the fact that insects can see things that we can’t and a spectrum and they can zone in. I had a community gardener that was afraid of the tomato hornworm. And so, you know, we would have all these, these raised beds with tomatoes and just 1 or 2 tomato plants would get the tomato hornworm and that, you know, insects can see a sick plant and it just makes sense. You’re going to lay your eggs on that plant that’s weak, for your offspring. I mean, it is just, you know, but I mean, that’s a recent development that we’ve had in our society. And, , so, and, and I own three drones, so I’m always I got my drones for my work. And so, yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Are you all using drones to get up in the canopy? No.

Jeff Inman : No, no, I mean, some places, across the world utilize drones, especially like, like my friends that are doing a lot of, like, the big tree, like sequoia and redwood, like, research and work and stuff. They’ll use drones to set their ropes. So that way they can go up or like,, I was just helping out with a project in, in Taiwan, , a couple months ago, and they were using drones to just measure trees which was cool, because how historically we’ve done that is just climb up to the top, tie rope to the tip top, drop it to the bottom, and then you measure it later. , or you’ve just got like a really long pre-measured rope or something like that. But now being able to use drones to where it like just I mean, as a climber, it it makes me sad because I just want to climb as many trees as I possibly can, but it makes it way more financially feasible for somebody to go out and do that work, especially if it’s research based to capture all that data. So.

Mindy : Right, right.

Mindy : Okay. Well, if you don’t have any questions for me, I guess I will let you go because I know you’re a busy man.

Mindy : Yeah.

Jeff Inman : Well, thank you so much. It was great chatting with you.

Mindy : Well, good talking to you too.

Mindy : Bye. Okay.

Jeff Inman: Cheers.