Advancements and Best Practices in Crane Operations with Hans J Tielmann

Episode Overview

Episode Topic

In this episode of Timber Talks, we explore the world of crane operations and safety with Hans J. Tielmann, founder and lead instructor at NJ Crane Expert. Hans shares his extensive knowledge on the historical evolution of crane operations, the integration of modern technology, and how his organization adapts to industry changes. We also explore future trends and innovations in crane operation safety, particularly in the forestry and arboriculture sectors.

Lessons You’ll Learn

Listeners will gain insights into the critical role of hands-on training in reducing learning curves and enhancing safety. Hans emphasizes the importance of proper planning and training to stay competitive in the industry. He also highlights the potential of augmented AI applications and other emerging technologies in transforming tree work and crane operations. Additionally, Hans discusses the significance of networking and continuous learning for professional growth.

About Our Guest

Hans J. Tielmann is the founder and lead instructor at NJ Crane Expert, specializing in crane certification and safety training. With a background rooted in a 50-year-old tree service family business, Hans has extensive experience in crane operations, particularly in high-risk environments. He is dedicated to educating and training crane operators, ensuring they understand both the theoretical and practical aspects of crane safety and efficiency.

Topics Covered

In this episode, we explore the historical evolution of crane operations in forestry and agriculture, focusing on how cranes have been adapted for tree work. Hans J. Tielmann discusses industry trends, including the increasing use of cranes in production tree services and the importance of proper training for safety and efficiency. We cover technological advancements in crane operation training, such as simulators and augmented AI, and Hans shares practical advice for maintaining safety and efficiency. Additionally, he provides success stories of improved safety and productivity through NJ Crane Expert’s training programs and looks ahead to future innovations in crane operations.

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About the Guest: Hans J. Tielmann’s Expertise

Episode Transcript

Mindy Mcintosh: Welcome to another episode of Timber Talks the art and science of arboriculture. I’m Mindy and today we have a very special guest, Hans J Tielmann, the founder and lead instructor at NJ Crane Expert. The new Jersey Crane Expert specializes in providing crane certification and safety training focusing on high risk work environments. They offer a variety of classes for crane operators, then include both theoretical and practical training. Today we’ll be discussing innovations in crane operation and safety. Future prospects in the field and practical advice for arborist and forestry professionals. Welcome, Hans.

Hans J Tielmann: Thanks, Mindy. I appreciate you having me on the podcast today.

Mindy Mcintosh: Oh no problem. So let’s dive into our first segment where we’ll talk about innovations and advancements in the industry. Hans, could you tell us about the historical evolution of crane operations and safety training within the forestry and agriculture industry?

Hans J Tielmann: Sure, I’d be happy to do that. So I meet people from all over the country, thousands of people a year, and I do get a lot of a lot of the same questions. Or there’s patterns in the way a lot of people in the industry think and the way they do things, and why they want to use certain tools. and what I found is that a lot of people truly believe that some of these cranes were, were originally designed for, dismantling trees. Okay. And what they don’t realize is that cranes have been around for decades, you know, half a century now. And, you know, they were mobile cranes. You know, cranes have been around since the Greeks and the Egyptians, in some capacity. But modern cranes have been around since the probably about the early 50s. And, you know, they were developed for, for hauling and loading materials to construction sites and putting things in places that you can’t reach with a ladder or, you know, any other types of traditional types of rigging. And, so when I tell people that they’re, you know, they’re pretty perplexed. They’re like, that’s interesting. I never thought of it that way. And I’m like, yeah. So, you know, when you’re investing or utilizing a crane for tree work, you know, you have to remember that their engineering process and and the way that they are, these pieces of machines are designed.

Hans J Tielmann: They weren’t they weren’t originally intended for tree work. There are machines out there now where they consider tree work, safety factors into how they develop and produce these machines, but traditionally they don’t. so when I tell people that they, you know, they’re kind of like, that’s interesting. And I’m like, yes. So when you’re using this machine, you have to understand that these machines are historically designed to lift static loads that don’t move very fast. and when we’re lifting trees, sometimes, or most of the time, you know, what we’re lifting is misshaped, uneven. You know, it has different densities as far as far as wood material go and how we secure them. they have a, varying weight in terms of how much that piece weighs, depending on the integrity and health of the tree. so there’s a lot more to consider beyond what the manufacturer designed these machines to, to be used for. And that’s where that’s where we come into play is, you know, we want to make sure we’re we’re enlightening our, our customers to ask those questions when they’re using these machines in the field.

Mindy Mcintosh: Okay. How has NJ Crane expert adapted to these changes? So have you seen, like drastic changes, let’s say, in the past ten years as far as, crane use in arboriculture.

Hans J Tielmann: Sure. yeah. As far as, as far as industry trends go in the, in the last ten years or maybe even like 15 years, there has been a major uptick in acquisitions of cranes or cranes, companies that have cranes, or the for production tree work. and that’s just something that was going to happen and it was inevitable. and the reason I say that is because historically, if you go back to, I want to say like the early 2000s. Okay. If you wanted to set yourself apart as a production tree service in your area. The machine to have was a bucket truck, right? If you wanted to get jobs done faster, or if you wanted to be able to be, you know, have better margins and getting things done, you had to have a bucket truck to stand yourself out from everybody else. Okay. As we progressed and we’ve especially where I’m from in the northeast, you know, we’ve had a couple of storms. Guys will get a little bit of money. And what do they do? They buy another piece of equipment. Okay. So by 2012 or 2014 everybody made money. They had all had bucket trucks. So now you you drive around. Every company has either a standalone bucket truck, 55 or 75 foot elevator or they have forestry package bucket trucks with elevators.

Hans J Tielmann: Okay. so now people are saying, all right, what’s the next thing that’s going to set me, set me apart from my competitors? It’s going to be a crane. Okay. Now, I come from a 50 year old tree service. I’m a second generation arborist. My dad adopted cranes back in the 70s. So we’ve been using cranes since the 70s. to dismantle or manipulate wood material. so we were way ahead of the curve as far as that. We’d have big cranes, but we had cranes that got stuff done. And we were also a very early adopter into having bucket trucks. so, we saw that we were getting a lot more work than everybody else, and we were able to charge more accordingly because we had the right tools for the right jobs. Okay, so in 2014, that was something that we start to see an uptick in, as a, as a tree service professional, that we start seeing competitors or other people around the country via social media that they’re like, I’m getting a crane, whether it’s a stick crane or a knuckleboom, to enhance that customer experience in terms of getting more work done, more effectively.

Mindy Mcintosh: All right. What are some of the latest technological advancements in crane operation training that N.J. Crane expert has incorporated into their programs?

Hans J Tielmann: Sure. So, I’ve been teaching, for since 2018. I started I stopped doing production work in 2020. So there was a time where I was doing a little bit of both. initially when I started teaching, I was teaching formal Crane certification program, so it was theory based, education, where we would go over um operators manuals, features and functions in a theoretical environment. and then we would test them out on a national level and get them accredited as a certified crane operator in the United States. as as my customer base grew, I would ask, what else do you guys need? You know, now you have this certification. What else can I offer you? Or what else can I bring to the table to make you more successful, to make you stand apart from your your competitors? Um. And they wanted, besides the fact that we, we, we have grown into a more of a bilingual, training organization, we, we do a lot of stuff in Spanish. the next thing was like, we want hands on, like, almost coaching, like, like right in your ear, whispering tips and tricks of what to do. So we started. We put together a very extensive operator development program where we would go out with me or one of my other trainers. We would go out and we would handhold, new operators or even sometimes seasoned operators, to make sure that they’re operating at the highest efficiency with keeping safety at the forefront of everything that they did, that they’re doing in the field. And we found that that learning curve has drastically dropped because of the fact that we’re putting the right information on how to think in the right questions that they’re asking in those in field moments that they’re working.

Hans J Tielmann:  so we found that, you know, there’s no I haven’t done any sort of like, formal, I guess, research program or anything, but we found that an educated, skilled operator is going to outperform a novice any day. You know, somebody that that, you know, might go low and slow. ho, who, who gradually gains that experience. There’s they’re still asking those same questions that we’re giving our customers right there on the first day, you know, so we found that, that, that that has been a tremendous insight into our customers as far as getting work done, but also as far as the longevity of the equipment, maintenance, breakdowns, you know, helping people troubleshoot and make sure that, you know, that they understand, don’t do this or this is the consequence, you know, take the time to set up the right way or this is the consequence, you know, as far as cranes are related, they have big rewards. But with those big rewards have big risks if you do not use them the right way. and it’s not something that happens right away, but sometimes there’s an incident and it takes six months for that incident to cause something to break down structurally. And then that crane fails. So we want to make sure that they have all that information presented to them, so that they can make good choices.

Mindy Mcintosh: There’s nothing that replaces hands on learning. No no, no.

Hans J Tielmann: That’s the other thing is that a lot of customers, you know, they don’t want they don’t want to be learning on the job. You know they don’t want to they don’t want to lose the time, that they’re taking away from business to teach people stuff. And, and it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a blessing and a curse because obviously, we want everybody to be safe. We want everybody to, to be running at the highest efficiency levels. But at the same time, we don’t want to go to a customer, you know, a homeowner and say, hey, you know, today we’re cutting your tree out of your house. So we’re learning how to do that on your dollar, on your property, at your expense, you know? So that’s all part of how we educate our customers to set up the training, or we set up the training and say, hey, this is ideally the environment that we would want. We can do it here, here or here. This is this is what we need in terms of tools available so that when we show up, our trainers are ready to go. There is no downtime in terms of getting the most out of our time being there.

Mindy Mcintosh: Right, right. Can you share a success story where new Jersey crane expert’s training significantly improved safety and efficiency in a high risk environment?

Hans J Tielmann: Sure. I can’t think of any specific, like, case studies. but we’ve had customers where we went out there. We did their initial training a lot of times. the YouTube is also a blessing and a curse where guys will be like, hey, I own a construction business. I saw this crane on YouTube, I want one. Okay? And, they buy a crane. You know, we do our briefing where we call and, like, ask questions about their experience. And you know, what they know about the work that we’re going to be doing. And a good portion of them end up saying, you know, I drove trucks or I ran an excavator for 20 years, and now I want to get into a more of a niche, service offering as it relates to dispatching cranes for tree workers. I mean, even cranes in general lifting. Okay. And we go out there and we’re like, we have to stay a couple more days. You know, these guys aren’t ready yet, and we stay, and we do the training. And what’s really big for my team is that we constantly communicate with our customers, so we’re always checking in to making sure everything’s okay. But the true success stories is that there’s customers out there that they started buying a, you know, a used second mark, second hand piece of equipment.

Hans J Tielmann: And now they have three brand new cranes. You know, that they’ve grown to the point where that they can, you know, they’re they’re reinvesting and getting more equipment or they’re upgrading to different types of machineries or even sometimes, you know, maybe they bought the right crane, the wrong crane that was too big. And they realized, my area don’t need a machine that big. They downgrade to a smaller, more compact type of machine. And that’s all the stuff that realistically, like my job as an educator is to teach you how to ask the right questions, you know? So I want to make sure that, you know, we’re paying my my students and my my customers, they’re paying attention and saying, hey, this works. This doesn’t work. Let’s adapt, let’s adapt, let’s adapt. Cranes forced to adapt because you were in this type of tree business. And now if you’re going to be effective with that machine, you have to change your business model to work around the fact that you are utilizing a more high ticket priced item. That’s the type of work that you’re going to be generally, focusing on.

Mindy Mcintosh: 910. Now let’s shift our focus to the future prospects and upcoming innovations in the field. What emerging technologies or trends do you see shaping the future of crane operations and safety training in the forestry and agriculture industry?

Hans J Tielmann: Sure. So I mean, this is my this is my brain kind of coming out right now in terms of there’s not really a thing like this going on yet, but I do see that there’s going to be a shift towards, more of the augmented AI applications into tree work. you know, we’re starting to see advanced imagery processes going into place where we’re able to identify, fatigue and different types of, of defects in trees with cameras and analysis processes. And truthfully, I think that, definitely in the future you’re going to be able to run one of these machines, from home or from your office. if not completely augmented via, NFC tagging and branch. they’ll, you’ll, you’ll able to do, load planning and stuff all virtually in terms of like where to make picks and analyze tree growth structures. I mean, it’s years away from that happening. But as far as equipment goes, you know, they already have route planning for cranes. So if you know that that crane needs to go back to that spot, as long as there’s no obstructions in place, you can hit a button and the crane can operate itself to reorient itself back to the origin spot, and then vice versa.

Hans J Tielmann: You can have a route planned for your landing zone. my current crane. I have an auto fold auto, auto deploy feature where I can hit a button and my crane knows how to open itself up. Mm. so there are technologies out there, I am hesitant, I am hesitant to say that I. That they’re going to need work. because since, historically, you know, as an arborist or as somebody that’s worked with people who come from an older generation, we like less is more. You know, so less, less, sensors, less things that could cause problems or diagnosis problems. So again, bittersweet, opportunity. but like I said, I think that I think that that’s all just that those technologies have to advance, you know, the sensors and moisture issues and things that we’re experiencing now only is going to improve itself. You know, the horse before the cart, you know, so as we grow, everything has to kind of progress in terms of technology. If we’re experiencing the same issues over and over again, nobody’s going to want to invest in equipment like that. So.

Mindy Mcintosh: Right, right. Well, it’s very similar. And I, you know, um.

Hans J Tielmann: Yeah. Like I.

Mindy Mcintosh: Said, and and stop. Right. Yeah. It’s it’s very similar. So it when Remote Sensing first came out it definitely put a divide, between the older generation and the new generation. And now they kind of they’ve kind of meshed a little bit.

Hans J Tielmann: But how long does that take?

Mindy Mcintosh:  gosh. When I was in college, remote sensing. Remote sensing and GIS was just starting. And then when I got my master’s, it had really bloomed. I it was it was at least ten years before it really became a thing. Yeah, a thing. And then drones came in, you know, and again, you still had that divide. but I did a business competition over a drone for the Houston AG, and, unfortunately, I did the competition in a rural community and is it? Needless to say, I didn’t win, which I was fine with that, but it was just it was trying to get the farmers to understand if you want to, if you want to stay in business, this is a direction you’re going to have to go. You may not like it, but you know if you’re going to be competitive. So and in the fact that I was a woman telling them they needed to do this, I didn’t know that either. So, but it took at least ten years. but, you know, like when I was getting my master’s, we were doing research using, CDs for, ight across the river from Rogel. we were doing research, examining the sewer systems over in Louisville using GIS and and some other some other projects like that. So but it took a good ten years before I was all excited about remote sensing. I was like, wow, you know, type thing. But, um.

Hans J Tielmann: We as an industry, you know, we like what we like and we only trust what we know, you know? And also, just like with anything, no one wants to be the guinea pig.

Mindy Mcintosh: That’s right.

Hans J Tielmann: So I do think that there’s going to be, we’re going to break a couple eggs before we make an omelet. as far as tree care goes by, I would say if you say 15, ten years, I’m going to say 15. so. And, you know, that’s just that’s just, you know, the, the certainty that we have to have in the technology that we have. But that’s why, you know, we work, you know, my team and I, we, we do work with a lot of of the larger manufacturers and making sure that they have a good pulse on the industry in terms of what our voices want, you know. so I do travel a lot. I go to a lot of shows and I speak to people, and I want to make sure that that I am a good representation of what, what our industry wants. in terms of the growth that we want and then and having the right growing pains.

Mindy Mcintosh: Right, right. Well, I mean, I’m saying that it’s different, but it’s the same. I’m seeing a similar trend with I, you know, I’ve already I’m already seeing the divide. I want you to do this solely with the AI, or I don’t want you to do it with AI. And so it’s it’s going to take a while for that, that technology in itself to kind of to shake out and see what, what.

Hans J Tielmann: Sticks, what.

Mindy Mcintosh: What sticks, what society is going to accept, what companies are going to accept, like Amazon, you know, book publishers, etc.. Because I, I’m an international author and, you know, there’s this, this clear cut divide. you know, and and. Yeah. And you can speed your work up this way, but, you know, you pay a price, and it just really it’s going to take about ten years, I think, for this whole AI thing, colleges have have jumped on the bandwagon with kids using it to write papers and, and, but, you know, it is what it is. I, I have my own personal opinion, but I but it doesn’t really matter because it’s here to stay, which is needed to tease out some things about it. What steps can current professionals take to prepare for these upcoming changes and ensure they stay ahead in their field so that the.

Hans J Tielmann: So yeah, well, the first thing I’m going to say is that you’re, you know, most of these guys there, we we as an industry, we have a tremendous amount of pride. Tremendous okay. We’re very prideful in the work that we do. We have a lot of pride in our equipment. We have a lot of pride in our team. and what I have to tell people a lot of times is that if you want to stay afloat and you want to get ahead, you have to be a good planner, okay? Plan accordingly. Plan for training. All right. So you should be doing something on at least a monthly basis for a day. Okay. Some sort of training formally not like. Oh let’s look at these ropes today. Like sit down, put together a plan. And if that’s something that they need help with, they can reach out to me. I’d be happy to guide them through that process, but plan for training. Okay. Second thing is plan to go to networking events. Okay. Some. There’s a lot of shows out there. There’s more and more shows popping up.

Hans J Tielmann:  where as far as regionally, they’re in almost every region of the country. There’s something on a state level or a regional level, at least one time a year, sometimes more. Okay. and then we have the national shows. national conferences and, and and, expos to go to where you’re going to meet some of these trailblazers, and you want to ask them lots of questions. Okay. How’d you do well with this? Where did you not what did you not like with that in terms of, you know, anything? So like I said, if you’re like, if it’s cranes, you’re going to want to find who that crane person is regionally to pick their brain. I was you know, I grew up in new Jersey. I worked for my dad for a long time, and my dad taught me a lot. But it wasn’t until I started to travel that I truly was able to get a really good pulse on. On the struggles and the the the the opportunities that the tree care industry has to offer. Mhm.

Mindy Mcintosh: Okay. Yeah. You mean by any business or or career paths or whatever can really benefit from networking. You know, just seeing, picking other people’s brains about situations. I think that’s great advice for really anybody in any industry. So, would you, recommend possibly a person working with, like, a land grant college or, you know, something along that lines, because a land grant college would have a forestry program and maybe that would be also another venue of of having your finger on the pulse of the industry to see what types of technologies they’re working on Or, you know, would that be another venue that you would suggest?

Hans J Tielmann: Sure. We, eah, you could definitely reach out to any sort of university that offers that. there’s definitely opportunities there. We do work with our local, Polytechnical Institute for the high school kids who are looking to get into trades. where historically, if you want to pull levers or if you want to run a machines, they typically steer you down the construction route of the dirt world, where we’re we have a big, crusade right now or mission that to educate the younger generation that there’s opportunities to do that in the tree care field, you know, so a lot of times, when you hear of Tricare businesses, advertising or even, you know, big associations, it’s all about the climber. It’s all about plant health care. It’s all about, if you’re a ground guy, you’re you have a, you have a, you know, bushel full of brush under your arm all day. you know, that there’s opportunities for, mini skid operators, mini loader operators, running debris trucks, running cranes, and a lot of those kids that run bulldozers and run excavators there. That’s an easy transition in terms of your debris manager. Your job is to manage and move debris. and that’s typically one of the biggest struggles when guys or gals get cranes is that they get all this material on the ground now. Now they got to get it out of here, you know? So it’s it’s a, it’s a, it’s a very big opportunity for younger kids to, to get a job with a good salary, and grow with a company, as an operator.

Mindy Mcintosh: Okay. So have you. I know where I’m in Indiana. We have, a vocational school. The kids go half a day to their high school, and then they go to the vocational school. And they do have a construction program there. Have you ever thought about teaching at the. At that type of level for the next generation being part of the construction?

Hans J Tielmann: Yes. Yeah. That’s something that I’ve been considering for a couple of years now. I haven’t really had the opportunity to do that, but we have been supplementing, what, the current program. we do own two mobile crane simulators that we can pull up and, you know, it’s all air conditioned and powered in a trailer, and you can sit in a crane and run it without any risk, you know? So, that’s something that we want to entice the younger kids to say, hey, you might be nervous. This crane is really big. Let’s put you in the simulator for a few weeks. You know, a couple hours a day. And, let’s get you feeling, you know, getting the feel for the controls. All of our simulators, their motion access bases. So as you swing the crane, it’ll rock or move and all the all the same kind of, little signs and and concepts that you would see in the real world that we can, we can recreate in a, in a safe environment.

Mindy Mcintosh: Okay. All right. So for our final segment, let’s talk about some practical advice and best practices for our listeners. What are some common safety issues that arborists face when operating cranes and other heavy machinery, and how can they avoid them?

Hans J Tielmann: Sure. So, there so as we were talking about, the past, right, the last ten years and how we’ve grown so much into the crane world or crane use in the arboriculture industry. so has accident rates, right? So, you know, people are like, cranes are dangerous. You know, I get it all the time. They’re like, why would I use that? There’s so much risk. And I’m like, yes, there’s risk. But the reason why we have so many more accidents these days is because there’s so much more product in the market, okay. Like there’s still bucket truck accidents happening every day, but nobody’s saying, bucket trucks are dangerous, right? but back, you know, in 2002, when we had the bucket trucks, there was much less access because there wasn’t so much product and inventory out there in the used and the new market. Now everybody is like, you know, when we first started, there was maybe, a couple hundred of these machines out there and now there’s thousands of them. So of course there’s going to be more problems. but what’s really cool about my job and meeting the people that I’m meeting the users and, and hearing from their experiences, and when things do go bad, you know, what was the outcome or what was the official ruling of why that happened? What we are experiencing is lack of knowledge in terms of understanding and calculating. Would wait, upon lifting a tree because once we cut it, we can’t put it back, you know? So understanding, how much is too much understanding that with the load chart says is the final rule. Like that’s it. There’s no more that this crane is capable of. Okay. Understanding that when we’re making a lift that the crane, the boom will deflect.

Hans J Tielmann: And when that deflection happens, the radius of the load on the hook will increase, which lowers our capacity. and that when we set up our cranes, when they design these cranes, they’re designed for construction. So they’re meant to be set up on concrete pavement or, you know, at a job site that’s not residential, where there’s so many more, obstacles that we have to handle and that you have to prepare to recreate those ideal conditions every day, you know, when they when they when they made those load charts, it was set up out of clear, no wind. Day knows no Rain. the ground was flat on concrete, and now we’re bringing it into somebody’s backyard where it’s clay. May have rained the day before. Uneven ground. We have septic systems. We have, foundations and basements to consider. We’re in a tight access spot, and you have to make those good decisions. And making and saying that a good enough is never enough. We have to be right. He has to be right. so I try to embody that principle with my students is that you don’t do it that way. You do it the right way. right. My other piece of advice, that I try to tell everybody, is always be a student. Always, keep it open, mind. you might not agree with somebody, but hear them out. and and, you know, don’t be, you know, don’t try and be a know it all because it’s going to be somebody out there that might know a little bit more about a certain subject than you, and you should take that information, and use your best judgment, or source that information to see if it’s accurate. Is it?

Mindy Mcintosh: Can you share some best practices for efficiently and safely using bucket trucks, chainsaws and chippers and tree care operations?

Hans J Tielmann:  Do you have a couple of hours?

Mindy Mcintosh:  what would be your top ten? How about, top ten?

Hans J Tielmann: Again, it it comes down to, well, let’s start with the ground. any type or any type, any time we’re using any type of equipment, we want to make sure we have a good base. So if we’re using a bucket truck, you know, is the machine capable of, you know, are we supposed to keep the tires on the ground, or are we supposed to lift them completely up if we’re lifting it completely up? You know, we want to make sure that nothing slides if we’re on a hill. if we’re dealing with a chainsaw and we’re making we’re making some cuts on the ground, we want to make sure we have good footing on the ground. We don’t want any slip trips or falls. Right. if we’re using a chipper, same thing if we’re dealing with ground conditions, if we’re on a hill, you don’t want to be working anywhere near the the the deck of the crane or the deck of the chipper where you could potentially trip and fall into the deck because the chipper is in a position where you’re standing higher than where the chipper is sitting. Okay. as far as, the equipment itself, making sure that you are very familiar with any tool that you’re using, what its maintenance procedures are. We want to make sure that our machines are always working at their in, ready for ready for use, certain ready to use condition.

Hans J Tielmann: So making sure we’re cleaning filters, making sure we’re greasing things, making sure that everything’s been tested before we put it into service. nd as far as testing that goes, that means, you know, running all the functions on the job or in your yard before you bring it out to the job to make sure the repairs that you made. I would prefer to make a repair in my yard. That’d be making a repair on the job. So making sure we do our pre-operation inspection, on the chipper, the crane or the bucket truck is is crucial. Making sure that it operates, you know, accordingly. Mhm. as far as working our way up, working aloft, making sure that we have control over our tools, ourselves and the material that we’re cutting down, keeping an eye out for our team on the grounds, making sure that we’re. If we’re dropping something, that the area below is clear, that we can account for all of our team members before we lay a tree over. and, you know, making sure that we’re constantly vigilant for, we’re constantly vigilant for, um. The homeowner or any sort of bystanders that are potentially could be walking through a job site having control over where that job site starts and stops. Those are my top ten right there.

Mindy Mcintosh: All right. So in in a sense make sure your equipment is maintained. Make sure you know where everybody’s at and and don’t take and do risks essentially.

Hans J Tielmann: You know make sure you have good ground conditions.

Mindy Mcintosh: Yeah. All right. How important is it for tree care professionals to stay updated with certifications like those offered by new Jersey trained expert? And what benefits do they gain from these certifications? Sure.

Hans J Tielmann: So before I get into that, I just want to explain what what training is. Okay. So there’s different levels of education and training. education is more theory based. Training is more hands on. Okay. When we’re training what our goal is to build skill. Okay. We’re building skill. You can’t do that in a classroom. So some of our classes that we offer, I say that right away, I’m like, this is not a skill building class. This is here for general knowledge and theory based education for you to to learn how to ask those questions. And then it’s up to you to practice and build those skills. Then we have our skills building classes which are straight, straight right to the grit. Let’s start working and evaluate and adjust and then try again. so as far as as far as training goes, okay. the, the most basic level of training is, is, is, competent training. Okay. So are they competent at the tasks that they’re going to be doing? Okay. So that is showing your employee how to do something then confirming that they understand how and why and then them doing it okay. The next level of training is going to be a qualification.

Hans J Tielmann: Are you qualified to do your job? Okay. A qualification is something that’s held, it’s a certificate program that’s held by the employer. Right. So it’s the same thing. It’s, being shown how to do your job. Okay. Understanding how you do your job by taking a written examination. Right. Or, you know, some sort of quiz that says that you were able to take the information provided, retain it, test out on it, okay. And then perform a, practical examination where they have to go through a series of tasks to order to test out as a qualified user or specialist, under their training, under their companies, under their company. As a as an employee. Okay. And then above qualification. Then there’s certification. Okay. Certification is the same process as a qualification. But instead of it being backed by the employer, it’s backed by an accredited uh association accreditation. And that is a that it’s it’s, whether it’s regional or national. and that credential is held with the individual. So if that individual were to leave a job that credential transfers with him. Mhm. Okay. So same as qualification. But it’s a personal credential that moves with that person and it typically expires or has to be renewed anywhere between 2 and 5 years.

Hans J Tielmann: Most of them are five years, but there are some that are down to two that there has to be renewed. Okay. Or summer or like, if you were to do aerial rescue or E&P, that has to be done every year. same thing with first aid CPR. First aid CPR is every two years, depending on the one that you take Grade certification is going to be every five above certification, which is the highest level, which is a license. Okay. Just like if you were to get a license to drive a car, you are licensed to drive in any state. Okay. that is a state wide program. Same thing. You have to test written examination. Test, practical examination. And then you would be issued your state license. Some of those licenses for cranes are not transferable out of the state that they’re in. Some of them they they you can adopt or get adopted into other states. but you would hold a state license. You would hold a state license. Crane operator’s license. so that’s how that’s the hierarchy goes. License certification qualification competent in terms of training goes.

Mindy Mcintosh: Okay. so, is there an advantage to be to having the certifications, like at the state level, besides being able to, to know what to another employer? Yeah.

Hans J Tielmann: So if your state has a license, it’s a requirement. Okay. So yeah. So that would that’s not something that’s optional. If they require a state operator’s license that that’s just like a car. If you’re if you’re you need to have a driver’s license to drive a car, you have to have a great operator’s license to operate a crane in your specific state.

Mindy Mcintosh: Okay. How many states do have that requirement? Uh.

Hans J Tielmann: I want to say. At least ten. At least ten of them have a license. I have to, I’d have to look. it’s. A lot of them are in the northeast area. It is? Yeah. Okay.

Mindy Mcintosh: All right. I was just curious if it. Do you see it maybe becoming a trend that more states are going to pick that up or.

Hans J Tielmann:  it will. The more the more accidents that we’re going to be experiencing, the more legislation is going to be pushed into doing that. but then there’s some states that don’t require anything. the for what you’re lifting, or certain or very, very loose restrictions on what you’re capable of lifting and not lifting. Uh.

Mindy Mcintosh: Yeah. I saw a similar thing. I have three drones, and I saw similar thing when, germs first came out. Well, not first came out, but when they were, more easily attainable. Attainable. about, having to have a license with the FFA to be able to fly a drone. you know, so that that’s a whole nother topic for another topic. But but, you know, it was just kind of interesting. It was like they didn’t think about that. You know, it’s a new technology. Everybody’s going to want it. Everybody’s going to buy it. And then, oh yeah, we have people flying it into buildings and stuff like that.

Hans J Tielmann:  that’s similar to, you know, maybe where that technology comes into places for create operations is that, you know, when those drones first came out, you were able to fly them. No restrictions. Right? The only way that they could, the only way that they could tell if you did that or not was if you crashed. And they looked into the drone and saw where you were flying. Nowadays you can’t fly unless you get permission through the drone. You know, that they have that software features where they’ll lock you out. You can’t fly here or they’ll limit you with those, you know, with those those walls are those those walls of safety, where maybe in the future that will be the same thing for cranes, where you you can’t run the crane unless you type in your certification number. You know, every time you or something where it shows that you know who, who’s operating this machine, what those limitations are. right.

Mindy Mcintosh: He was just funny to me how it was like, you know, it just wasn’t thought through. And then, you know, you had all sorts of all sorts of things happening and then the privacy issue and then, you know, in in Louisville, there was a gentleman that shot a drain out of the air with a shotgun because he he felt it flew over the property line. that’s like yeah. But anyway, I guess that’s the price we pay when we don’t think about technology and just go out and buy a bunch of stuff and and play with it. So, yeah. So like I said, that’s a topic for another day. So, that brings us to the end of today’s episode of Timber Talks the Art and science of arboriculture. Hans, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and insights with us. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe or follow us for more insight. Insightful discussions on forestry and arboriculture. For more information on NJ or new Jersey and Crane Expert and their training programs, visit their website at www.njcraneexpert.com/. Until next time, this is Mindy signing off. Stay safe and keep growing.